Rewrite BASIC language today?

In the Usenet group alt.lang.basic there was a thread recently with the subject heading "Rewrite BASIC language today?" where the question was explored about how BASIC would be written in today's programming world.

Clearly there is a wide range of opinions in the responses. Some opted for being retro and simple. Some advocated adding commands for dealing with various things. It's good to have a discussion about these sorts of things, and this one went well. There are a lot of experienced BASIC programmers in that forum and it didn't turn into a flame war.

In my own response I wrote "BASIC needs to be simple. Adding C or Java features is a mistake for the most part. There is value in keeping things out of the language."

There needs to be a balance. Sometimes it makes good sense to add new things to a language. But as I just said... sometimes. ;-)

Taking the Arc Challenge

Paul Graham, a very famous Lisp programmer who is well known for his continuations based web framework has invented a language called Arc (a version of Lisp). He came up with a challenge to see how others would implement a trivial web program in their favorite language.

Here's the Arc program:

(defop said req
(aform [w/link (pr "you said: " (arg _ "foo"))
(pr "click here")]
(input "foo")
(submit)))

Follow this link to see other submissions in different languages. Scroll down to to bottom to see the Run BASIC example. http://arclanguage.org/item?id=722

Now tell me which language you'd rather develop web apps in. BASIC is the one. ;-)

Knocked on the head with BASIC

A close friend of mine schooled in C++, Smalltalk, Java and Groovy told me the other day that he has written his first BASIC program by using Run BASIC. He had never written code in BASIC before, but he took my word for it that BASIC is a great language for throwing together solutions quickly. He said he was struck by the lightness of the BASIC language and that he enjoyed working in it. This is my paraphrase of what he said, because I don't remember his exact words.

I know there are a lot of modern BASIC implementations that force you to declare all your variables and give them types and sizes. Some of them keep the core keywords but add Pascal syntax, and some make BASIC look more like Java. I know there are some benefits to the way these other languages work, but BASIC is really meant to be very light and simple. In my humble opinion any language claiming to be BASIC which forces the programmer to dot too many i's and cross too many t's is not BASIC, but an imposter.

BASIC is a small language without too many rules.

Web Programming for Fun

There has always been a culture of complexity-worship in the programming community. Some people seem to think that the Internet is a good excuse to take this even farther. This takes the fun out of programming, and it scares a lot of people away from even trying it. We think that this needs to be pushed back against. One of our goals in creating Run BASIC has been to make web development so easy that anyone can do it. As a language designed to make programming simple, BASIC is an ideal platform for realizing this idea.

We need a culture of simplicity. The computer should do that hard stuff for you. For example web application servers manage user sessions and processes, and these are things that require special administration by an expert in most web systems. With Run BASIC, except for a couple of fields in the Preferences tab that let you configure how long the timeouts are for sessions and processes, you don't really need to know anything about these. It's all done for you automatically.

Or for example let's say you want to draw graphics? There are no add-ons that you have to locate, download, and install with Run BASIC. It's all built right in, and just a few lines of code can draw some meaningful graphics into your web apps.

It's easy, and it's fun.

Java and BASIC - Simplicity and backwards compatibility?

Bruce Eckel and Joshua Bloch kick the can around about Java and complexity. Read about it here:

http://www.infoq.com/news/2008/01/java-evolution

I especially like this quote about Java and web development:

Web application development - this is difficult, and developing web applications with complex and underpowered technologies like JSP and JSF "is like eating soup with a fork"

I've been a Java programmer for 7 years. I've never liked the language. It always seemed to me to be much too verbose and controlling. It's amazing to me that it has been so popular, but that is more of a marketing accomplishment than anything else.

Run BASIC is a web programming system in development, and a really important part of what Scott McLaughlin and I are trying to do is to manage how the language grows. One important question to ask is how much emphasis to place on backwards compatibility as we more forward. Our goal is to create the best BASIC for the web, and it should still be simple and fun to use even as it becomes more powerful.

I invite your comments. :-)